|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2472
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 16:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
@ CCP Rise
http://i.imgur.com/a5IoojA.jpg
The art here shows 8 turrents, we were all hoping finally for an 8 launcher BS, and with the low damage bonuses these have it would seem they were primed and ready for an 8 launcher boat, yet its only got 7.
Is this a typo? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2474
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
People complaining about the tanking ability of these have to understand they're not designed around tanking
Mach base speed 161 Barghest base speed 148 Vindicator base speed 126 Bhaalgorn base speed 101 Nightmare base speed 94 Rattlesnake base speed 94 Nestor base speed 92
This thing will be fast as hell, coming in just barely behind a Mach (13 m/s slower) Machs generally run a 2 slot tank with a DCU and end up near 100k hp with proper skills.
The Mordus BS will be just fine if you're not trying to go against its nature and brawl with it.
EDIT: Even still with a baseline t2 tank you're looking at around 120k hp overheated for about a minute, 100k idle hp just sitting still running its mods. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2474
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thalesia wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:People complaining about the tanking ability of these have to understand they're not designed around tanking
Mach base speed 161 Barghest base speed 148 Vindicator base speed 126 Bhaalgorn base speed 101 Nightmare base speed 94 Rattlesnake base speed 94 Nestor base speed 92
This thing will be fast as hell, coming in just barely behind a Mach (13 m/s slower) Machs generally run a 2 slot tank with a DCU and end up near 100k hp with proper skills.
The Mordus BS will be just fine if you're not trying to go against its nature and brawl with it. except most people armor tank machs these days for brawling/sniping. literally every pirate bs, can be somewhat supertanked and keep some functionality. this is my concern,
I don't know what 'most people' you're talking about, I've seen and been in fleets of machs and generally speaking we simply make fun of people that armor tank their machs because it sucks so much of the awesome that is the Mach out of it.
This games risk averse population never ceases to amaze me though, so its possible that people are ruining a ship by tanking it the complete opposite of what its function dictates.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2475
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thalesia wrote:
You fly fleets of nano kiting SB machs, yeah right, good luck with that buddy.
Yea, silly us...
http://i.imgur.com/Zy18eAE.png
To be clear you'll be able to get similar numbers on a Barghest, only with missiles that don't give a damn how fast you're going for damage application. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2477
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thalesia wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Thalesia wrote:
You fly fleets of nano kiting SB machs, yeah right, good luck with that buddy.
Yea, silly us... http://i.imgur.com/Zy18eAE.pngTo be clear you'll be able to get similar numbers on a Bharghest, only with missiles that don't give a damn how fast you're going for damage application. EDIT: Unless im doing my math wrong the Bhargest will actually be faster than what I have linked for a Nano Mach, as it will be carrying an extra nano fiber (assuming lowslot layout of 3x BCU, 2x Nanofiber, 1x DCU) so you'll be looking at an overheated speed of around 3700ish with a LG snake clone, closer to or over 4k m/s with a HG snake clone rofl 2b shield mach with 150k ehp with full links and a dcu, collapses instantly if it's caught, inbe4 1.1b armor mach with 300k ehp with HG slaves and links.
Only cowards need to max tank everything, also your HG slave clone costs as much as my whole ship, and still dies to concentrated alpha like a bum so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here brotatoe.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2477
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 17:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Capqu wrote:
the damage application for these missiles is no different than any other
unless you mean time to target and the change in the range as the target moves
I'm talking about the problem gunships have applying DPS at high speed, they tend to miss entirely, do really low damage per shot, and or force the pilot to slow down to deal his damage.
This goes all the way back to the Nano sac back when EVE was fun to play, it was considered one of the stronger nano hacs because it didn't need to adjust its speed to deal its damage, it simply did damage at 10,000m/s the same as it did at 5 m/s.
These ships will share a similar advantage in that they've no need to slow down to apply damage at all.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2478
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Voyager Arran wrote:Hi I'm in Goonswarm, something about PvPing without tackle.
Judging a persons ability at the game based on the alliance he's in is probably one of the dumber things you can do in EvE, generally on par with "hey i'll just move this PLEX out of Jita"
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2478
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Michael Harari wrote:I have some estamel torp launchers to sell you That's funny. How much over $50-million/each do you want? It's not gona have the PG to fit torps Why not its got a ton of PG.
11600 base (Power Grid Management 5 brings it to 14500) torp launchers are 1838 each (1655 with AWU 5) puts you at 11585 leaving you nearly 3k pg after a full rack of torps.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2478
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 18:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Torpedo Barghest: 1417.5 dps using T2 torpedo launchers, Rage ammunition, Faction BCUs and +5 implants. Very poor for pirate BS with no aplication bonus and no TP because of only 6 meds
Torps x7 heavy neut MWD, medium injector, target painter, 2 x invulns, point. 3x BCU, RCU, Nano, DCU
Seems fairly straight forward to me. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2480
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 19:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
marVLs wrote:
Except You won't be able to fit half of this,
You 100% shouldn't have any problem fitting exactly what I have posted, I've even done the math in an earlier post. It will all fit. (it will have over 16600 pg, which leaves like 4.5-5k pg after fitting 7 torps and a mwd if you fit a single RCU on it)
marVLs wrote:tank will be pitiful
It will have the same tank or better than a shield tanked Mach, and I've never heard that called pitiful.
marVLs wrote:and damage aplication with 1xTP and Rage torps will let You only hit other Battleships until they start moving...
This part you just made up. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2481
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 19:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
So after some poking around with some EFT files, anybody complaining about either the speed or the tank on these ships in either armor or shield configuration is insane.
You will go very fast in shield fits with a really nice tank or you will go not quite as fast with 390k + hp in armor configuration.
http://i.imgur.com/CLATukH.png (note that is just **** thrown at EFT and in no way optimal) Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:CCP Rise, are the capacitor stats you have listed there accurate? +2.05 Cap without skills on the Frigate is very low (Approx +3.41 with max skills) and it will not be able to even run a MWD (without anything else) permanently, running a LR point + MWD for any extended period of time will require a lot of sacrifices. Also, if the stats ARE accurate The Battleship has less cap regen per second than the Stabber does.
Initially I thought that the Garmur would be overpowered given the point range bonus, and 6.75 Effective Launchers. For reference, the Hookbill has 6 KINETIC locked launchers. The hawk has 5.32 Approx (Non Kinetic) and just under 8 Kinetic locked launchers. So this ship will have heavy selectable damage type missiles, as well as moving at near interceptor speeds, dealing AF damage. However looking at just the Capacitor stats alone it seems like it could be balanced or even, perhaps, underpowered, at least in a kiting role it will find itself unable to run point or MWD very quickly.
Yea, but like, unbonused damps literally shut these ships down, especially the frigate, and lets be honest, unbonused damps are really really common right now.
Like I said else where, the counter to these is not only really really obvious, its super common.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Suitonia wrote:CCP Rise, are the capacitor stats you have listed there accurate? +2.05 Cap without skills on the Frigate is very low (Approx +3.41 with max skills) and it will not be able to even run a MWD (without anything else) permanently, running a LR point + MWD for any extended period of time will require a lot of sacrifices. Also, if the stats ARE accurate The Battleship has less cap regen per second than the Stabber does.
Initially I thought that the Garmur would be overpowered given the point range bonus, and 6.75 Effective Launchers. For reference, the Hookbill has 6 KINETIC locked launchers. The hawk has 5.32 Approx (Non Kinetic) and just under 8 Kinetic locked launchers. So this ship will have heavy selectable damage type missiles, as well as moving at near interceptor speeds, dealing AF damage. However looking at just the Capacitor stats alone it seems like it could be balanced or even, perhaps, underpowered, at least in a kiting role it will find itself unable to run point or MWD very quickly. Yea, but like, unbonused damps literally shut these ships down, especially the frigate, and lets be honest, unbonused damps are really really common right now. Like I said else where, the counter to these is not only really really obvious, its super common. Hey Grath, I don't the Garmur is overpowered, I even suggested in my post that it's probably underpowered given the terrible capacitor stats on it. All of the capacitor stats on these ships are trash. The Griffin has more Cap per second than the Cruiser does. The Stabber has more cap per second than the Battleship does. You will need to fit an Injector on everyone of these ships if you plan on kiting.
Yea, 100% man, people screaming about their power levels aren't really looking at the broader picture of what they'll fight against in the current environments you'll see them in.
The ships have some strong power, don't get me wrong, but the down sides are super evident when you look at the package as a whole.
Damps, any neuting at all for any reason, blank them out.
Oddly though, they have a slightly higher SS than most Pirate faction BS (which we both know will me F-All when EC300s get on them but its still nice and a nod towards their caldari background)
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, .
Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, . Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it.
http://i.imgur.com/nGNLCqr.png
I was over on the DPS by a bit, its pretty low, the cruiser should be around the other cruisers in the 7-800 range, lower than some t1 vanilla cruisers but nearly the same as some of the other pirate factions, below a few hacs, above a few others. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2491
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 00:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bischopt wrote: You can't really fight back and since the dps is decent you can't really tank it either.
This entire statement is false
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2495
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 03:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Somehow not getting that the Battleship is as underwhelming as people say. I personally think its amazing (though I like the torp version with a painter better).
http://i.imgur.com/Z6QCLRV.png Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2495
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 03:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
ViRtUoZone wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Somehow not getting that the Battleship is as underwhelming as people say. I personally think its amazing (though I like the torp version with a painter better). http://i.imgur.com/Z6QCLRV.png I'm just curious as to how you got those ships on EFT? Edit: Found it updated today.
Theres a file out already by Namamai on SA.com and Reddit, and now FHC.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2500
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 03:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:Actually the Orthrus can overhteat to nearly 7k, and yes, that is in the range of Interceptors and Nanofrigs. It is at least faster than anything that has a chance of survinging a tackle attempt, which is all that counts.
I think you might be mentally handicapped or you're just unaware of how little damage this thing does to an interceptor....you know, the thing thats going to be tackling it. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2500
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i love all the "it has no counter" posts when i'm pretty sure grath pointed out about 20 pages ago the obvious and common counter to these ships. ( hint: he said sensor damps) Grath is wrong. A pair of unbonused senor damps still leave the ship plenty of safe operating room, and a dedicated sensor damp ship only counters it insofar as a rack of bonused damps counter every. Which, to be fair, they do, but that's not a peculiar weakness.
Yea, Im totally wrong that a single damp fit condor doesn't ruin that frigates day and drop its lock range to less than a Navy Slicer and that assumes you're running a rig and integrity link.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2500
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Endo Saissore wrote:
How did you manage to get a 56km lock range on a frig that only has a base lock range of half of that? .
He burned a stupid amount of calibration and rig slots on getting it to do that, giving up other options just to get the lock range on it, which means that he's weak in other areas (notably his tank).
Also his fits are garbage, that thing tanks a pitiful amount of damage for the money he's invested in that fit alone, to say nothing of the fact that the changed succubus will probably rip it to pieces.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2501
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Endo Saissore wrote:
How did you manage to get a 56km lock range on a frig that only has a base lock range of half of that? .
He burned a stupid amount of calibration and rig slots on getting it to do that, giving up other options just to get the lock range on it, which means that he's weak in other areas (notably his tank). Also his fits are garbage, that thing tanks a pitiful amount of damage for the money he's invested in that fit alone, to say nothing of the fact that the changed succubus will probably rip it to pieces. The tank is fine considering it is a kiting ship. You shouldn't be getting hit too much and the ancillary repper will shrug off most the damage. With kiting ships it is quite easy to disengage when you get overwhelmed. Of course a succubus would rip it to pieces as would any brawling ship. You don't seem to understand that kiting ships are not competing head to head with a brawling ship though.
The succubus isn't a brawling ship, hth. Feel free to tell me more about kiting ships though obviously I am new to EVE and enjoy you explaining to me how things work.
EDIT: Quick checks reveal that a standard fit rail harpy obliterates your 400 million isk frigate in a shocking time frame while eating anything your fit tosses out. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2501
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
yea its almost like he spent so much effort on fitting and getting his lock range up that he gimped the ship..odd, who'd have known using FIVE slots up trying to shoehorn crap on and make his lock range longer would have an adverse effect.
If only I wasn't so new at this game that I could understand kiting. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2501
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I won't bother replying to your points to be honest because you don't even seem to grasp the concept. You might as well be complaining about why a tank cannot beat a F1 car around a circuit, two completely different things.
Hey guys I dont like the points being made against my garbage fits so I'm taking my toys and going home.
I feel like you might be like, 7 years old at this point.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2502
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote: If you are balking at spending 150mil on a faction frigate then you shouldn't be flying one.
This is the dumbest thing you've said in the thread
Medalyn Isis wrote: The guys in fail heap challenge are even saying this frigate is OP.
Welp, never mind, here you have topped yourself by basing your knowledge on a forum full of people who stopped playing EVE years ago.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2505
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 22:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
kurage87 wrote:Seriously, stop saying the kite fit will lose to sniper fits. Of course it bloody will.
Exactly, so its not really OP is it then. It turns out its either weak to damps,weak to neuts, on top of being weak to sniping.
Kinda hard to put a ship with that many weaknesses in the 'OP' category.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
|
|
|